Just as an example:
The modern world no longer seems to have interesting highscores, just "leaderboards". Meaning: I can store the ID of a player and his score in such a leaderboard. The score is a 32 bit signed integer...and then you store another 32 such integers. But not text. None at all. Such much for making the "leaderboards" interesting to read... we could attach "user generated content" to a leaderboard entry - but you have to load each such piece of content separately so making the leaderboard more interesting by adding user generated content is not even meaningful possible as that content is not meant to be displayed. So we have pretty boring leaderboards with just a username and a score.
I mean, a simple text addition of up to 200 characters or so would have been nice to actually turn leaderboards into something truly interesting to behold. But roguelike games really seem to be incredibly different from the rest of the world. It never would have occurred to me that this even could be a topic...
How will you like that?
I want to see HOW people died, or if they achieved a victory ending. I don't care about score at all.
ReplyDeleteExactly. But my current understanding is that Steam doesn't allow for interesting score boards. So disappointing.
DeleteIsn't it possible to upload the memorial files to a cloud, and when one clicks someones score, it would show the memorial file of that character or something like that?
ReplyDeleteNot directly. No. We are right now discussing to restart implementing the ADOM community server as Steam functionality in many cases sadly seems to be incredibly lacking. I guess I no longer understand todays gamers...
Delete(Attention, cynic on the mic)
DeleteWell, you either have narrative-driven action games like The Last Of Us, which don't need scoreboards anymore, or retro-indie-games that only need to track your points.
For some odd reason, only FPS players seem interested in stats - mainly their Kill/Death ratio.
You are not alone, Thomas. I've been playing video games (mainstream AND roguelike) for the last 30-odd years, and I'm scratching my head more and more :-)
The same as Chris - score itself isn't very interesting. Turns, victory or death, time played, challenge completed if there are any - this is interesting stuff.
ReplyDeleteThat's very annoying :-( does the restriction on the data that can be stored and transmitted between players affect other areas, e.g player ghosts?
ReplyDeleteNo, the other areas seem to be safe. In-game features currently all seem to progress as planned. It's more the community side that is appallingly primitive.
DeleteIt would be a pity to show a number only. I have seen games on Steam show more information in the leaderboards, for example Awesomenauts shows stuff like medals gained, character used, etc. I guess they roll their own server. Couldn't you use your own server and Steam side by side?
ReplyDeleteWe couldn't find anything at Steam. Do you have a link?
DeleteUsing our own server is an option but it means a lot more work and much less usefulness from Steam.
Here is a screenshot of the Awesomenauts rankings - http://www.upload-pictures.de/bild.php/25151,201302120000114HSN.jpg
DeleteBut I have no link related to how they do it technically, I only have seen it in the game as a player. I suppose they use their own server.
Steam does very little on this front - most games rely on their own servers.
ReplyDeleteIncidentally, most games do it themselves because it doesn't make them dependant on one service. Their highscores get shared across Steam, GoG, Desura, etc users. Plus they have total control of how everything is presented and handled.
DeleteThat makes sense.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSo steam will store records like
ReplyDeleteplayer name, score 32bit int, 2nd 32bit int
but the leaderboards will be displayed inside the ADOM game client, right?
Could the game just parse information from the second integer?
0,123,456,789-
something like checking the 6789 positions against a catalog of causes of death (there are thousands of those, right?). 345 positions could give locations, 1 and 2 could be used to show character level at death, the 0 place could show loss,victory,ultimate victory...and then the game client could just display the information with more verbosity on the in game leaderboard display? or are we talking about leaderboards that live completely on the steam side and only get displayed in the steam community section?
I was thinking the same.
DeleteAs was I
DeleteI don't care at all about bare figures the leaderboards, they mean nothing to me. So, if no text can be uploaded there automatically, then the leaderboard support is not necessary to my taste. I want to read stories, not watch some figures.
ReplyDeleteI hope you release ADOM on GOG too, because Steam DRM/CEG protection slows down games noticeably and true that noteye speed recently increased with SDL2 however ==> it will be slower because of Steam CEG.
ReplyDeleteSo Thomas, whats your stance on this? No GOG for ADOM?
There are plans to release ADOM on GoG and other services in the future. Right now steam is the main focus.
DeleteSteam is completely understandable this way. Glad to hear!
DeleteI don't care at all about leaderboard scores. I'd definitely like to see what killed the high achievers and read whatever notes they attached to their game, eg 'Got a crystal tower shield on DD:7 and rode it for the next 20 levels' or what have you
ReplyDeleteIt's a pity they are so inflexible. Then again, modern game development has only just recently applied interesting death notes etc. in games like Dark Souls.
ReplyDeleteTo this day, I regularly head over to the rec.games.roguelike.adom newsgroup and read a couple of YAVP or death notes. Most of them are interesting at least, very amusing often enough and helpful at the best of times to improve my own game.
ReplyDeleteBeats looking at sterile numbers any day.
These days you will probably find more YAVPs at the forums than at the newsgroup.
Deletehttp://www.adom.de/forums/forumdisplay.php/11-YAVP
English aside... You should consider going around their high score system and use your own server to collect data. Unfortunately that would obviously cost you extra money. It might be worth it for how neat a more fleshed out high score system would be though!
ReplyDelete